The Importance of Drum Heroes

[jonthibault]

Cool post. Is there really a place called Greasespot?

Interesting story about Tony Williams. Chubby guy on a couch. Pretty wild.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ April 19, 2003 01:34 AM: Message edited by: jonthibault ]</font>

[ptrack]

AWESOME POST MAN!!!!
This stuff should be in MD or something. For me , it has made me realize that Drum Heroes are indeed quite a healthy thing..I mean everything we play today, everything that we EVER copped,and anything we have ever seen has been handed down from generation to generation. 5/8 was ON about the direct lineage of drumming influences concerning the drummers that he mentioned...
I once read an interview with Jeff Ballard (Chick Corea's current drummer.)and he said something like this . "If you listen to music from different cultures; you will find reasons to play things."
Obviously, we all have to realize that Warren "Baby" Dodds was practically the first drumset player in history....But if you look at how things have turned out now..The evolution of the drumset has gone leaps and bounds...Musically and in most other ways as well. It's breath taking!!
Me personally I love alot of different and contrasting styles of music...But you know, Great music and great drumming seem to exist everywhere regardless of the style...But the best drummers have something special...that sets them apart from us clones and imitators...They have thier own sound , own style, GREAT FEEL, and in alot of cases insane chops...And when I hear that stuff... I WANNA TRY TO PLAY IT!!
Regardless if I can't do it as good as the drummer I took the lick or groove from...It's just that feeling..that rush...most importantly for me the educational value of trying to do something insane like that...Which usually pays off in a big way later on down the road..

Just my $0.05

This board is great!!!

[five eight]

When I think of Baby Dodds or Chick Webb (especially the reverence Buddy had for the little guy) I feel very humble, yet proud to be part of that dizzying (pun intended) exciting heritage. It's like what Randy said here about Vinnie applying the math to Tony's playing: we're all dipping from the same well, using the same influences, ADDING to the language and it is a language to use as sure as I'm assembling these words. As contributers we define ourselves; tomorrow any one of us could play something that would put us on the map. Even if we die without having ever made a recording, we're still part of the whole. If all you do is play covers in a crummy bar, you're STILL CONTRIBUTING and can be justifiably proud. Hell, if all you do is sit at home practicing triplets or pata fla flas, you belong!

[jonthibault]

Man, Five Eight, you should be on the motivational lecture circuit! Makes me feel like practicing!

[five eight]

Coming to a dive near you!

You're the chap that made the remark about the fluorescent cocksock in that other thread, right? That's the funniest thing I've ever read, my sides STILL hurt.

[Geoff_G]

yes, right on the money. i figure that Tony was influenced by Alan Dawson, Elvin, Roy Hanes & Max...but in another way, i kind of feel like he was just a musical genius where his ideas just exploded out of him...all he needed was some direction. kind of like Bonham...who influenced this british son of a bricklayer ?

[five eight]

The avant garde heavily influenced Tony too. When he joined Miles in 1963, Elvin had already been with Trane almost three years. In 1960 'free jazz' began making waves and dividing the jazz community. Modern Drummer won't tell you this (not unlike the way they whitewash a lot of drummers's drug habits) but if you're interested in where Tony nicked a massive chunk of his style check out the albums Ornette Coleman recorded in 1960 and '61 with Ed Blackwell on drums. I recommend This Is Our Music, Ornette, and Ornette On Tenor. You'll say to yourself: "Damn, that's Tony, without the technique." I've never seen this theory advanced in any magazine or heard it discussed anywhere. I listened to some Ornette and it was like finding a missing page of history. The cornerstones and lynchpins of Tony's free concept are all there: the seemingly random playing, the shifting pulse, broken rhythms cast aside like gum wrappers. No doubt Tony was the better player. He brought precision and chops to Blackwell's ideas. And made them his own.

Making statements like that is bound to get me in trouble with many readers here. Please put my theory to the test. If you've never listened to Ornette, you're gonna love Ed Blackwell.

[Geoff_G]

cool 5/8...i will check it out. on the drug habits, the Miles autobiography sez it all (great read). and thanks for the PM on the Bonham book:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...79306580&itm=1

Geoff

[beat Hit]

What happens when you come back after vacation away from the NET?

Spending hours catching up reading two weeks worth of HOD Posts!!! LOL!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Five Eight,

I couldn't have said it better. My heroes have always been a major motivating factor too. I must say that some positive angles of my playing came through by listening to the way some of them approached those specific dimensions of drumming. I.E: Feel, pocket, technic, musicianship, etc...

Nothing new under the sun indeed...

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[erskoman]

EXCELLENT POSTS, GENTLEMEN!

Answer me this: from where did Elvin get his drumming style? (This question was put to me by Chick Corea one day when we were talking about various drummers, including Tony ... Chick had a fairly comprehensive knowledge of the chain of influences, confluences, etc., apparent or otherwise, of most drummers' vocabularies/lexicons, but challenged me to name a source for Elvin's revolutionary playing style ... he and I were both stumped by that one.)

Greetings from Birmingham. Oh yes ... Steve Houghton presented an excellent performance and short clinic hit; his shirt was indeed colorful.

As promised: I wore black.

Cheers,
Peter Erskine